Can you find Whites Killer Sacrifice here ?

I thought this was an interesting game. I have identified the Major Piece endings as an area where I can gain some points with study. I won this game as white on time. At the time I thought it would play out to a draw but I now believe that it is a black win with his king once he gets to h2.

I missed a killer sacrifice that would of won the game. Can you find it?

cut and paste game into pgn viewer on the sidebar

1. e4 {3} c5 {4} 2. Nf3 {2} Nc6 {1} 3. Nc3 {2} e6 {8} 4. Bb5 {12} Nd4 {18} 5.
Nxd4 {30} cxd4 {3} 6. Ne2 {8} e5 {10} 7. O-O {12} Nf6 {13} 8. Ng3 {17} a6 {24}
9. Bc4 {8} b5 {12} 10. Bb3 {16} Bb7 {3} 11. d3 {8} a5 {33} 12. a3 {5} Be7 {19}
13. Bg5 {29} O-O {3} 14. Bxf6 {38} Bxf6 {3} 15. Nf5 {7} d5 {83} 16. f4 {16}
dxe4 {57} 17. fxe5 {15} Bxe5 {13} 18. Qg4 {27} e3 {59} 19. Nh6+ {29} Kh8 {13}
20. Nxf7+ {5} Rxf7 {17} 21. Rxf7 {6} Bd5 {35} 22. Raf1 {39} Bxf7 {21} 23. Rxf7
{150} Bf6 {50} 24. Rd7 {47} Qb8 {94} 25. Bd5 {14} Ra6 {109} 26. Be4 {
8} Qe5 {333} 27. Ra7 {108} Re6 {67} 28. Ra6 {
16} Re8 {17} 29. Qh3 {. 101} h6 {17} 30. Qg3 {39} Qxg3 {12} 31. hxg3 {3} b4 {33
} 32. a4 {13} Rc8 {3} 33. Rc6 {9} Rxc6 {3} 34. Bxc6 {3} g5 {1} 35. Kf1 {9} Kg7
{1} 36. Ke2 {2} Be5 {1} 37. b3 {16} h5 {1} 38. Bf3 {5} Bxg3 {1} 39. Bxh5 {5}
Kf6 {1} 40. Bf3 {4} Ke5 {1} 41. Bg4 {17} Kf4 {0} 42. Bf3 {20} Bf2 {0} 43. Ba8 {
5} Kg3 {1} 44. Be4 {Zaman ' 10} 1-0


The answer is in my comments, Hint it is somewhere between move 25-30

Recommendations for Chess Endgame Software ??

I am looking for chess endgame program simalar to CT-art.

It should cover basic to intermediate endgames. Heavily geared toward being practical and learning principles.

Please make recommendations.

http://www.convekta.com/downloads.asp

I see 3 options in convekta.

Brain Dump from Part one of Mednis King and Pawn Ending tape

Many Experts feel that K&P endgames are the most difficult of all.

You can follow the right path most of the time by following these rules

1) Activate your King ( King leads passed pawns)
2) Try to get the Opposition
3) Use King Triangulation to obtain Zugswang Position
4) Outside Passed Pawns are usually decisive
5) in misserable looking positions, look to draw

If you have only one pawn the Rook Pawn is the worst one to have.

On a clear board, all consistant King Routes between two points are of equal length

In order to maximize your effectiveness, look for King Routes that can't be interfered with by your opponent

Opposition (def) Kings are seperated by an odd number of squares either 1,3,5 with no pawns in the way

Opposition can be Vertical, Horizontal or Diagonal

On an open board, the value of having the opposition is your King can move forward

If your King can get in front in your pawn this tends to be a win
If your King can't get in front of your pawn it is a draw
If the King is on the side,whether it can get in front normally determines win

If you have to lose a pawn to a King Capture, Pick the spot where the king will have trouble promoting a pawn

King on the 6th Rank in front of a pawn always wins(file b thru g)
King on the 3,4,5th Rank in front of his pawn will win only with the opposition
(with an extra pawn, a pawn move can always achieve opposition)

Note to self :Postion 11 is the most important position

When Capturing a pawn see that the King is advantageously placed.

(observation) There are often surprising sacks of a pawn on the H-file to draw, Causing the opponents g pawn to become an h pawn which can't promote

There are only 3 ways for the Weakside (black) to draw in K&P endgame,
1) an unwinable rook pawn endgame
2) Position 6 see picture white on move for draw
3) Position 11 see picture either side moves for draw
(will add the board view to this post)

Always try to simplify to a known winning position.
Mednis had an example where he sacked pawns to get his king in front of pawn on 6th rank

2 knights study

Some positions I seem to lose a dispropotional number of games. Here is one . I am black in the 2 knights white to move. I plan on study into this further.

I have discovered that the 2nd screenshot of my last post was incorrect. sorry about that ......... will post a corrected one later .

Wed, 20 Ct-art problems

Breakthrough 1 & 2

The 2 position above with white to move are classic breakthrough positions where white can force a passed pawn. I can muddle through what are the correct moves. But I wonder, Are there rules of thumbs to use as to what the correct pawn move should be in these positions??

Braindump from Endgame book

JTF Endgame book


Intro:
The characteristics of the endgame are:
1) Endgames favor an agressive king
2) the importance of passed pawns is greatly increased in the endgame
3) Zugswang is often a factor

If you want to win at Chess, begin with the ending - Ruebin Fine.

Some rules that apply to the middlegame and opening actually reverse themselves in
the endgame.

A passed pawn increases in strength as the number of pieces on the board
diminishes. -Capablanca

C2: Pawn Endings: Atomic Chess

There are 2 principle features that determine play in any pawn ending-
1) Position of the Kings
2) Presence of passed pawns.
P1 King and One Pawn

Chances of Winning

K+1 vs K 50% chance of win
K+2 vs K 90% chance of win
K+3 vs K 95% chance of win

* If you have an extra pawn advance your King ahead of the pawn.

* If a pawn can be supported by his King often blocking is the only defense which
often draws
* You can't stop a pawn from the side, BLOCK IT.
* You can't stop a pawn from behind, BLOCK IT.

Blocking a pawn does not always work except if it is a rook pawn.

Often when opponents interupts the path of a chasing King, counting squares should
be used instead of the rule of a square

The Three rules for winning a pawn up game:

1) Move your king in front of your pawn

2) With the king in front of pawn either diagonally or directly in front you will win, unless your opponents gets the Opposition.

3)With the king on the sixth rank(non rook pawns) in front of your pawn you always
win regardless who is on move.

If the pawn advances to the seventh rank in front of the king with a check this is
a draw.
"Advance with check, your game is a wreck"

A pawn hitting the seventh rank without check it is a win.

Rook Pawn: When Living on the edge can be safe

* One can often corrall a King into a stalemate on the Rook file .
* When the Superior side pawn is a rook pawn (an a or h pawn) the win is impossible if the weaker side 's king takes possession of the the corners queening square or barricades the opponents king in that corner.

Safe Square- If the opponent can stand on a square and draw, it is a safe square.

* Taking the opposition when ahead of the pawn diagonally inevitably leads to
having the oposition in front of the pawn.

Passing the Move- Triangulation-
in order to take the oposition and force the opposing King from the key square,
you will often need to pass the move on to the other side. This is done through
Triangulation.

Calling in the Reserves

Often a reserve pawn move can effective pass the move to grab the opposition.

The Moving Screen

As in the moving Screen in Basketball, a King can move in the shortest route to his objective while preventing the opposing king to take the shortest route to hisobjective. Also known as shoulder pushing.


The moving screen accomplishes two goals. Allows one king to take the shortest
route to his goal while preventing one opponents king from doing the same.

The distant opposition:
By taking the opposition from a distant one can force a direct opposition as the Kings move closer

Unlike real life, stepping aside diagonally is as short a path as traveling straight ahead on a rank or file.

All Consistant King Moves Across the Board are of Equal Length -Mednis

The Classic Triangilation (look at example on pg 62)

If the King on Move can enter the square, it can catch the pawn.

Part II Passed Pawns;


The main task of a distant passed pawn is to distract the opposing king, while on the other side of the board it's own king attack defenseless pawns bereft of the kings support.


2 passed pawns, who on their own cannot promote, often serve as protection for
each other.

Capturing One would put the other out of reach of stoping the other: One can not
dance at two weddings.

Passed Pawns are meant to distract; the farthest one is from the opposing king the
strong it's ability to distract.

Breakthorough. 3 pawn directly across from 3 pawns seperated by a single rank . To Breakthrough move the middle pawn. ( then offer a Falkbeer like countergambit with the other pawn, one will have to pass !)

Summary: One should be alert to sudden transitions in the endgame.

Happy Halloween

I am not going to pretend that this is particularly sound or accurate , it's just something fun to play. The Halloween Gambit as played by my friend Dutch Defense . In one post a few years back he introduce me to Minchev who played some mean 4 knights .

To View, Cut and Paste the game into the pgn viewer on my sidebar

(3423) Takchess (1517) - Yando (1533) [C47]
Rated game, 16m + 0s Main Playing Hall, 13.07.2007

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nxe5 Nxe5 5.d4 Nc6 6.d5 Nb4 7.a3 Na6 8.e5 Ng8 9.d6 cxd6 10.exd6 Qb6 11.Bf4 Nf6 12.Qe2+ Kd8 13.0–0–0 g6 14.Bg5 Bxd6 15.Bxf6+ Kc7 16.Nd5+

As to the circles, like Columbus,I seem to have taken a slight detour. It's evident I need to hit the problems again. Will do some tomorrow and update you.

Your thoughts on the Scandanavian Defense- ?! or !?

A number of Knights play the Scandinavian Defense or at least play against it. I have toyed around a little playing it as Black as well as played against it as White . I'll go on the record that I don't think it is a crappy defense however I seem to win a disproportional amount of games against higher rated players playing it as black. (note this is against Internet play 20 + 6 not otb slow play).

As white after the initial e4Xd5 move, I just develop and try to develop in a way where I can gain tempos by playing developing moves that chase the Queen around. I don't put a lot of effort holding onto the d5 pawn.

In a number of Scandinavian games , My opponents seems to do some pawn grubbing or plays for some trappy immediate gain. Often the pawns are not an immediate poison pawn but tends to allow white to build some strong attacks. My question to you is in the Scandinavian are there often positions where black can take free pawns but should refrain ? Also what do you think about the Scandy in general.

Playing more endgames

I seem to be reaching more simplify positions leading to endgames. Here is one I loss as black.

Link to Marshall Games -8... d4 9 d5

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesslike.pl?gid=1241362

A link for my future references as to ideas for play when white declines the gambit and offers one of his own. 8....d5 9 d4

3 generations of Traxlers

I played these 3 Traxler games at one sitting against the same opponent . They are offered in the order they were played: note each game he got a little better. The third game I had to resign to attend to a honeydo but he had a winning position. They are offered with Fritznotation and can't be read with a standard pgn viewer.



(3381) Dan avidar (1610) - Takchess (1457) [C57]
Rated game, 20m + 5s Main Playing Hall, 07.07.2007
[Fritz 10 (30s)]

C57: Two Knights: Wilkes-Barre/Traxler and 4 Ng5 d5 5 exd5, unusual Black 5th moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke1 [7.Kg1 Qh4 8.Qf1 Rf8 9.d3 Nd6 10.g3 Qd4+ 11.Kg2 Nxc4 12.dxc4 Qe4+ 13.Qf3 Qxf3+ 14.Kxf3 Rxf7+ 15.Kg2 Nd4 16.Na3 b6 17.Re1 Bb7+ 18.Kh3 d6 19.c3 Nf3 20.Rf1 Kd7 21.Be3 Raf8 Small,S (2245)-Van Tilbury,C (2300)/Novi Sad 1990/TD/0–1 (33)] 7...Qh4+ 8.g3 Nxg3 [8...Qf6 9.d3 Qf2# 0–1 Filos,A-Bakodimos,D/Athens 2004/CBM 104 ext] 9.Rg1N [9.Rf1 Nh1+ 0–1 Werner,G-Kutzner,S/Bad Marienberg 1993/GER; 9.hxg3 Qxh1+ 10.Bf1 Rf8 11.Qe2 Rxf7 12.Nc3 d6 13.Nd5 Kf8 14.Ne3 Bh3 15.d3 Nd4 16.Qh5 Rxf1+ 17.Kd2 Rf2+ 18.Kc3 Qc6+ 19.Nc4 Rxc2+ 20.Kb4 Qc5+ 21.Ka4 Rxc4+ 22.dxc4 Qxc4+ 23.b4 Bd7+ Frey,A (920)-Haeusler,F (1256)/Winterberg 2002/CBM 088 ext/0–1; 9.hxg3 cannot undo what has already been done 9...Qxh1+ 10.Bf1 Rf8–+] 9...Qxh2 [¹9...Nh1+ seems even better 10.Rg3 Nxg3–+] 10.Rxg3 [10.Rf1 is one last hope 10...Nxf1 11.Qe2–+] 10...Qxg3+ 11.Kf1 Rf8 [11...d5 12.Qh5 Rf8 13.Bxd5 Bh3+ 14.Qxh3 Qxh3+ 15.Bg2 Rxf7+ 16.Kg1 Qg3 17.Kh1 Rf2 18.Bxc6+ bxc6 19.d4 Rh2#] 12.Qh5 [12.Qe1 the only chance to get some counterplay 12...Qf4+ 13.Kg2 Qg4+ 14.Kh2 Qxc4 15.Nxe5 Qf4+ 16.Qg3 Nxe5 17.Qxf4 Rxf4 18.Kg3 Rg4+ 19.Kf2–+] 12...d5! Decoy: d5 13.Bxd5 [13.Bxd5 Qh3+ Double attack(13...Nb4 Decoy) ; 13.-- Bh3+ Mate threat] 13...Bh3+ 14.Ke2 Nd4+ Dan avidar resigns (Lag: Av=0.35s, max=0.6s)[14...Nd4+ 15.Kd1 Qg1#] 0–1



(3383) Dan avidar (1564) - Takchess (1503) [C57]
Rated game, 20m + 5s Main Playing Hall, 07.07.2007
[Fritz 10 (30s)]
C57: Two Knights: Wilkes-Barre/Traxler and 4 Ng5 d5 5 exd5, unusual Black 5th moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bh5N [6.d4 Nxd4 (6...Bxd4 7.Bd5 d6 8.Nf3 Bb6 9.Bg5 Qe8 10.Nh4 Rf8 11.Nf5+ Bxf5 12.exf5 h6 13.Bxf6+ Rxf6 14.Be4 Nd4 15.Qd3 Qf7 16.c3 Nxf5 17.Bxb7 Rb8 18.Bd5 Bxf2+ 19.Kxf2 Nd4+ 20.Kg1 Qxd5 21.cxd4 Sergeev,V (2498)-Simacek,P (2404)/Olomouc 2001/CBM 083 ext/½–½ (60)) 7.c3 Nc6 (7...Ne6 8.Bxe6 dxe6 9.Qe2 Qe8 10.Be3 Bd6 11.Nd2 b6 12.0–0 h6 13.Nh3 g5 14.f3 a5 15.Nf2 Ba6 16.c4 Nd7 17.Rfd1 Nb8 18.Nf1 Qg6 19.a3 Rd8 20.Qc2 Nc6 21.Rd2 Nd4 22.Bxd4 Rossolimo,N-Prins,L/Trencianske Teplice 1949/MCL/1–0 (43)) 8.Bb3 Rf8 9.Be3 Bxe3 10.fxe3 d6 11.Nd2 Qe8 12.Qe2 Qg6 13.Ngf3 Na5 14.Bc2 Be6 15.0–0–0 Nd7 16.h3 Rab8 17.Nh4 Qf7 18.Nf5+ Bxf5 19.exf5 Qxa2 20.b4 Qa3+ Paoli,E-Rossolimo,N/Trencianske Teplice 1949/MCL/0–1; ¹6.Bc4!? Qe8 7.c3+-] 6...Nxh5² 7.Qxh5 g6 [7...Qe8 8.Qh4 d6 9.Nf3+ Kf7 10.d3±] 8.Qh6 [¹8.Qd1±] 8...Rf8?? [8...Qf8!? 9.Qh4 Nd4 10.Nf3+ Qf6 11.Qxf6+ Kxf6 12.Nxd4 exd4²] 9.Qg7+ [¹9.Qxh7+ secures victory 9...Kf6 10.Nc3+-] 9...Ke8± 10.Qxh7?? ruins a very nice position. [¹10.Nxh7 Bxf2+ 11.Kd1±] 10...Bxf2+–+ 11.Kd1 Qxg5 12.d3 [12.c3 doesn't get the bull off the ice 12...Qxg2 13.Kc2 d5–+] 12...Qxg2 [¹12...Qg4+ might be the shorter path 13.Kd2 Bd4–+] 13.Bg5 [13.c3 is still a small chance 13...Qxh1+ 14.Kc2–+] 13...Qxh1+ 14.Kd2 Qe1# (Lag: Av=0.31s, max=0.5s) 0–1

(3385) Dan avidar (1560) - Takchess (1507) [C57]
Rated game, 20m + 5s Main Playing Hall, 07.07.2007
[Fritz 10 (30s)]
C57: Two Knights: Wilkes-Barre/Traxler and 4 Ng5 d5 5 exd5, unusual Black 5th moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bh5N [6.d4 Nxd4 (6...Bxd4 7.Bd5 d6 8.Nf3 Bb6 9.Bg5 Qe8 10.Nh4 Rf8 11.Nf5+ Bxf5 12.exf5 h6 13.Bxf6+ Rxf6 14.Be4 Nd4 15.Qd3 Qf7 16.c3 Nxf5 17.Bxb7 Rb8 18.Bd5 Bxf2+ 19.Kxf2 Nd4+ 20.Kg1 Qxd5 21.cxd4 Sergeev,V (2498)-Simacek,P (2404)/Olomouc 2001/CBM 083 ext/½–½ (60)) 7.c3 Nc6 (7...Ne6 8.Bxe6 dxe6 9.Qe2 Qe8 10.Be3 Bd6 11.Nd2 b6 12.0–0 h6 13.Nh3 g5 14.f3 a5 15.Nf2 Ba6 16.c4 Nd7 17.Rfd1 Nb8 18.Nf1 Qg6 19.a3 Rd8 20.Qc2 Nc6 21.Rd2 Nd4 22.Bxd4 Rossolimo,N-Prins,L/Trencianske Teplice 1949/MCL/1–0 (43)) 8.Bb3 Rf8 9.Be3 Bxe3 10.fxe3 d6 11.Nd2 Qe8 12.Qe2 Qg6 13.Ngf3 Na5 14.Bc2 Be6 15.0–0–0 Nd7 16.h3 Rab8 17.Nh4 Qf7 18.Nf5+ Bxf5 19.exf5 Qxa2 20.b4 Qa3+ Paoli,E-Rossolimo,N/Trencianske Teplice 1949/MCL/0–1; ¹6.Bd5!? Qe8 7.Nc3+-] 6...g6² 7.Bf3 [7.Be2 h6 8.Nf3 Nxe4²] 7...h6= Black threatens to win material: h6xg5 8.Nh3 d6 White's piece can't move: c1 9.Nc3 g5 10.Be2 g4 Black threatens to win material: g4xh3 11.Ng1 h5 [11...Qf8!? deserves consideration 12.f4 exf4=] 12.d3± Nd4 [12...Be6 13.Na4 Bd4 14.c3 Bxf2+ 15.Kxf2±] 13.Bg5 Qf8?? Black crumbles in face of a dire situation [¹13...c6+-] 14.Nd5+ Kf7 15.Nxf6 Kg6 [15...c6 a fruitless try to alter the course of the game 16.h3+-] 16.Bh4 Qg7 [16...c6 cannot change destiny 17.c3 Ne6 18.h3+-] 17.c3 [17.Qd2 makes it even easier for White 17...Qh6 18.Qxh6+ Kxh6+-] 17...Nxe2 [17...Ne6 doesn't improve anything 18.Nd5 c6 19.Ne7+ Kh7 20.Nf5+-] 18.Qxe2 [18.Nxe2 keeps an even firmer grip 18...Rf8 19.d4 Bb6+-] 18...Rf8 [18...Be6 does not win a prize 19.f4! the end of the story 19...exf4 20.d4+-] 19.Nd5 c6 [19...Kh7 does not improve anything 20.h3 c6 21.Ne3+-] 20.Ne3 [¹20.Ne7+!? might be the shorter path 20...Kf7 21.Nxc8 Raxc8+-] 20...Be6 [20...Qh6 does not save the day 21.0–0–0 Bxe3+ 22.fxe3+-] 21.h3 Takchess resigns (Lag: Av=0.28s, max=0.5s) 1–0

Practical Endgames

I have been enjoying following Tempo's chain of thought as he explores practical endgame theory
He is searching from pragmatic ideas that will help him gain more points by playing a better endgame. This type of thinking is a new world of thinking as compared to the typical win a piece
tactical viewpoint.

The above position comes from a King Gambit Accepted game I played at Chess Club last night. This position Black on Move occurs a few moves after White (Takchess) traded queens on the G6 square to avoid mate. Black recaptured with his King on G6 bringing it to a more active square.

The game continued where both kings moved to the center of the board and I put myself in a postion where was able to trade rooks on the d2 square forcing my king to recapture on the 2nd rank. I pushed pawns on the queenside where I had the majority but could not promote due to Blacks active King. Black then marched the kingside pawns to victory.

I entered this position in Fritz and looked for matches in the one million game database and came up with no matches. When I run a cursory infinite analysis Fritz saw this as -.004 with ...Kf5, c4 Ke4 as the next moves.

This type of practical endgame theory is strange unexplored territory to me. Here are some questions that I want to explore

1) In this position what are the plans for white?
2) Should white encourage a rook trade?
3) How can white best counteract blacks active king?
4) How does the pawn structure mismatches on king and queenside impact these plans?

Questionaire tag

Hey Ron Keystor Knight tag you are it.

1) Blogger name and URL? Takchess , http://takchess.blogspot.com/

2) How did you learn about the Circles?By Googling around. King of the Spill was the first blog I read

3) When?February 2005



4) How long have you been going through the Circles, or if you have finished, how long did it take?I have intermittently done the circles with varied problems sets with large breaks in between.

Chess Tactics for Students 400 problems 16 circles
Complete Ct-art 1 circle
Ct-art L10 and 20 400 problems approx 26 circles
How to beat your dad at chess 200 problems 10 circles


5) How is your progress?I gained 304 rating points on playchess when one considers my high water mark from before I started. This rating fluctuates greatly.


.6) Would working with the Circles alone work well in terms of chess improvement, or does it help more to join the Knight Errant to monitor and discuss the Circles? I found it helpful but others have completed circles on their own.




7) Are you a scholastic player?No.

8) Would you recommend this method, the Circles, to scholastic players?In essence, yes. But initially with an easier problem set to start off with.



9) Do you use other chess training methods along with the Circles? I study classic games, read books and blogs ,play on the Internet and review the fritznotation of my games.

If any, could you summarize them.

10) Any general comments about chess training or the Circles you'd like to provide?
Lack of consistency,overaggressive play and lack of talent are the only things that have kept me from being an 2700 player.

king's gambit

(3355) Takchess (1546) - A (1704) [C34]
Rated game, 30m + 5s Main Playing Hall, 03.07.2007


1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Bc5 4.d4 Bb6 5.Bxf4 d6 6.Bc4 h6 7.0–0 Bg4 8.c3 Nf6 9.Nbd2 0–0 10.a3 a6 11.h3 Bh5 12.Qe2 Bg6 13.Bxh6 gxh6 14.Qe3 Kg7 15.Nh4 Nh5 16.Be2 Qxh4 17.Nf3 Qg3 18.e5 Nf4 19.Qf2 Nxh3+ 20.Kh1 Nxf2+ Takchess resigns (Lag: Av=0.25s, max=0.4s) 0–1

Cut and Paste into the pgn viewer on sidebar


A king gambit I recently played. Fell apart once I gave away my knight but thought it to be an interesting opening sequence. I think 16 Nf5 check was a winning move

Building a Bridge

I have just learn about the Lucena position with the help of Silmans book and the Dutch Video link from His Best Friend . This is very cool.

http://www.chesshere.com/blogs/?author=8358

If I hadn't played against someone in Chess Club 2 weeks ago using this very method.... I would doubt the frequency of this occuring and the importance of learning this method.